|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 8, 2006 19:31:50 GMT
Well this was much better than last week until the end. They should have left it as Rose goes into the alternate universe and had the Doctor return on his way. None of that 10 mins of lurve crap. After all, he wanted her to go through in the first place so what was all that about when she did?
Hopefully now Rose has gone RTD will end all that lurve crap. He really hacks me off when he talks about them 'loving each other'. Oh purlease!
Patsy
|
|
|
|
Post by eithne on Jul 8, 2006 20:15:58 GMT
Again you surprise me Ms Littlewood! I was expecting another major rant about how the storyline was such a let down etc., but for you to be so positive about 35 mins of this series is almost unheard of. How many episodes is that you have enjoyed (at least half enjoyed anyway!) so far?  Okay, back on topic and I really don't think there was enough action as there should have been. The episode should have been extended to an hour I think - purely to increase the action factor. But apart from that I think that it was pretty good. The way she left wasn't really, really good - but it did the job. The emotion was good I thought though - as it gave us and them a final farewell. I also thought it was a nice touch with Pete and Jackie being reunited, and Mickey and Rose being reunited as well. And what of Jackie's baby? An unexpected surprise! The Daleks v the Cybermen wasn't near as epic as I hoped it would be. I wanted a gigantic battle between the two of them, but what we got was rather tame. Final comment though has to be on Catherine Tate's appearence as The Runaway Bride... Why? |
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 8, 2006 21:21:42 GMT
LMAO! I thought you'd be surprised, Eithne. I nearly wrote "Don't faint!" in my post. Oh crikey. Um... I liked the SJS/K9 one despite all the rubbish about him dumping her, blah blah which if people watched Planet of the Spiders or The Hand of Fear they'd know was total crap. Problem is these are all so forgettable. Oh that one the other week. First part by the black hole. Liked that one. Lane told me the other day that she thought Pete and Jackie would be thrown together. There was a very funny line but I can't for the life of me remember what it was now. Something the Dalek said to the Cybermen. I agree about the battle. Also the CGI was pretty naff. The Daleks looked like cardboard cutouts when they came flying from the obvious Dalek container. But RTD keeps chaning even his own established history. Either the Daleks are all destroyed or not. And I still don't but 'the last of the Time Lords' rubbish. Not when there's others out there who wouldn't be seen dead anywhere near Gallifrey. Well we'll have to see what series 3 (29) brings. Hopefully more originality and less soap. There, you got me moaning. LOL! Was that Catherine Tate? Shows how much I know about people on TV these days. Patsy |
|
|
|
Post by eithne on Jul 8, 2006 22:42:21 GMT
Was the line "This is not war, this is pest control" that the Dalek said to the Cyberman? If it was then I agree that it was a brilliant line. I was laughing at it. It was hilarious to watch the two races having their little bitch fight, wasn't it? I expected them to get out the handbags any second. I also wondered how long the "No, you say your name" bit was going to go on for.
I agree the CGI wasn't great - but hey, at least Johnathon Ross is still on the Beeb (for £18m!!!) If they gave that £18m to Dr Who can you imagine what it would be like?
Four episodes out of 13 isn't too bad for you - is it? Still a step up from last series, when I don't think you liked any of them.
Anyone notice that the Black Dalek escaped (so they'll be brought back again). Also would Cyber Yvonne have been sucked through the hole as she had no space dust on her? Maybe the two enemies will be back, though hopefully they will give them a rest for at least the next two series. A few brand new arch-enemies are needed I think, as well as some foreign travel!
Yes - that was Catherine Tate. So we can expect "Am I bovvered?" come Christmas Day!
|
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 9, 2006 13:54:54 GMT
That's the line. You've got a better memory that me. I am surprised though the Daleks failed to recognise the Cybermen immediately. After all, to those who don't know their history, they'll be wondering how they could at all seeing as RTD is having people believe they were actually created in the parallel universe. I still don't like the design. Ignoring the Ironman element (who'd I'd never even heard of before this deign was annouced) they're far too clunky and more like robots. LOL! Maybe they could use the budget for better writing too.  No that's bad. I liked some last year, cheeky. Can't remember the flipping titles though. The Victorian one in Wales, the 2-parter with Captain Jack, Boom Town (remembered that one and I know I'm in a minority). Err.... I'm sure there was another but I can't remember it. I hadn't noticed that about the Black Dalek. I wouldn't be surprised if they return again. The Ice Warriors are meant to be in series 3. I did wonder that about Yvonne. Crikey I hope not but the way RTD's been acting like an over-excited shcoolboy over the 'secret' nothing would surprise me. What's the betting he writes it? Patsy |
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 9, 2006 14:01:19 GMT
Got the ratings from CT Towers:
Another good result for ‘Doctor Who’ (but then, we expected that didn’t we?)
The overnight ratings for Doomsday were 7.7 million average, representing a very impressive 43% or the audience.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Jul 9, 2006 18:25:03 GMT
Well.............it was all go wasn't it..and then suddenly it was all over !!...too much slush at the end..leave that to Touchstone pictures....
We thought that about Yvonne too..and we never noticed the black Dalek escaping either lol.
..but please please please...get away from earth in the next series or everyone will know about the Doctor
all in all not bad..my only quibble is explanations to things that were happening were either rushed or not bothered with
Can anyone tell me if the Cybermen and Daleks have met before (Discounting things like the Five Doctors etc...)
|
|
|
|
Post by pearly queen on Jul 9, 2006 19:27:44 GMT
I also enjoyed the stand-off slanging match between the Cybermen and the Daleks - it reminded me a bit of the old Newman and Baddiel stuff 'That's YOU that is.'
|
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 9, 2006 21:10:05 GMT
No they haven't. They didn't even meet in The Five Doctors. The lone Dalek exterminated himself while the Master and that man in the leotard (can't remember that name) polished off the Cybermen. Excellent. I do agree about the explanations. This is why the original rates more highly. I think it's time someone told so-called fan RTD he's an arse. How many ex-Gallifreyans would have been nowhere near when there was the Time War? Susan, The Master (the TV Movie doesn't count), Monk, Rani, the Doctor's fellow Academy student in whichever one in the Key To Time that's now the pathologist in Midsomer Murders. Romana was in E-space unless you believe the Big Finish stuff she's President. Then there's the Eye of Harmony. As the source is on Gallifrey, no Gallifrey means the Tardis won't work. One thing about Yvonne. Why did she have her own voice? Why did she still have emotion? Patsy |
|
|
|
Post by Lane Kent on Jul 9, 2006 21:33:25 GMT
I really enjoyed this episode. However I did hate the end but for totally different reasons to Patsy. I'll get to that later.
Other than as Eithne said this may of been better as an hour episode, which I think it would, on the whole the story flowed much better than normal. There were many great one liners (some of which already quoted in this thread) and the stand off between the cybermen and daleks was fun to watch.
I do feel though this story should have been left for the last ever episode mind you - or certainly somewhere in the last series. The Daleks and Cybermen are the Doctor's ultimate foes and now we have seen them fight each other so what can they do to match that? True they could all escape the void but well I think you probably know what I mean even if you disagree with me. The fact is this is global and the damage worldwide must of been devastating. Yet the next episode will continue as if nothing had happened and there will be no seeing the earthlings pick up from such a catastrophe.
Despite all that I enjoyed the match of Cybermen and Daleks. One of the other aspects of this episode I enjoyed was that it flowed nicely. Too often in the 27 episodes to date have stories appeared rushed. Stories that should of been spread over to an hour or 90 minutes have been crushed into a 43-44 minute slot and then lots of loopholes left behind. Episode 4 of this second series was a prime example. There was a story with likable characters that had such potential yet had to be watched closely for any hope of following as it was so bitty, rushed and it was obvious that bits of the story had been left on the drawing room table as the amount of loopholes were too numerous to mention. Then there have been other stories given two parts that didn't really merit them. They should of been 60 minutes at most. The Devil's pit one for starters. I can't remember which part I liked but there was definitely one part that seemed padded out. Then there was the Peter Kay one that should never of been made at all.
Eithne wrote
I agree because even as well thought out as this episode was, there were still lose ends such as :
1) What year was this actually set? I thought it was the present (as I had the previous cybermen story in both universes) however alternate Dad threw this into some doubt when he said that it had been 3 years since the Doctor and Rose had visited his world. Did I miss something somewhere? If I didn't miss anything was it asking too much to have this clarified
2) Staying with Alternate Dad, he had said how during the last 3 years there had been much discussion what to do with the cybermen as it was felt they needed to be helped as they were stilli beings so until that had been sorted they had remained locked up for 3 years in the cyber factories.
Now when we last saw the Cybermen they had had all their emotions restored, knew who they were etc. and were looking at themselves in mirrors in shock and trying to remove their metal heads. So my question is when did they go back to being evil again? I'm sure there is a logical explanation however I would really of loved to have been given it.
3) Cyberwoman Yvonne. What happened to her in the end? Is she still alive walking round Torchwood? I do not believe for one minute she was sucked through the void because as far as we know she had never travelled in time. It was only if you had that Time matter (do you spell it like that?) did you get sucked back through. So Yvonne was either killed or is still marching round Torchwood saying "For Queen and Country." I thought it was a shame she became a cyberman as I liked her and would of liked to of seen her come back in the spinoff series or later episodes.
4) How come Cyberwoman Yvonne had her emotions still? She even cried! All I can think is that they were in the middle of still making her when they were sidetracked so forgot to de-emotionalise her and Jackie escaped. However even so I would of liked an explanation as this may not of been the reason and the real reason just could not be fitted into the 45 minute block.
Like too often in this series with certain stories, the Yvonne angle was thrown in and then left dangling in the air when perhaps it would of just been better left with her being led away and screaming.
I hope when Torchwood airs they are going to explain why it is set in Cardiff and not Canary Wolf? I'm not holding my breath though.
As this post has got too long I'll deal with the ending in a different post.
|
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 9, 2006 21:45:34 GMT
I don't even care about Torchwood now. When it was originally announced I was going to watch. Now I'm sick of hearing about it. RTD said there would be no running theme like Bad Wolf in series 2. Lying git.
In the original series there were a few unexplained things like, for instance, when the Master was destroyed at the end of whatever in the 80s, he's suddenly turn up and it would be, "So you escaped from..." but never any explanation as to how. RTD must be a massive fan of the 80s DW then and not the Pertwee era like he said to allow things like that to be ignored. I like stories as they should be in any medium - beginning, middle and end. Not beginning, rush, rush, end, confused.
Patsy
|
|
|
|
Post by Lane Kent on Jul 9, 2006 21:45:41 GMT
Well this was much better than last week until the end. They should have left it as Rose goes into the alternate universe and had the Doctor return on his way. None of that 10 mins of lurve crap. After all, he wanted her to go through in the first place so what was all that about when she did? I understand why he wanted her to go yet still supposedly loved her, he wanted her to go because that is where she would be safe I'm guessing? However I totally hated the end and purely because it was so so predictable. I'd guessed it early last week and there was very little surprise for me so I found the end a total let down. For weeks and the BBC press releases, it was obvious Rose wasn't going to die. Why give the ending away of a 13 chapter book in chapter 6? Authors don't do it. Leave you little clues but a good one will never leave you knowing the end too soon. So I never bought into Rose dying especially when Billie herself said [bold] "This is the end of Rose for now"[/b] So I went into episode 12 90% certain the door was going to be left open for Billie to return as Rose. Then Jackie did her little speech about was Rose going to do this forever and lise her humaness. I became 95% certain then that Rose was going to quit being a companion and live out her life on earth. The only bit I didn't get right was it would be against her will. I thought Jackie's speech would make Rose decide to quit herself. So that literally was the only surprise for me. Finally the minute the Cybermen were revealed and it was obvious what universe they were coming from. The end was 100% clear. Jackie and Alternate Dad were going to team up and Rose and Micky were going to get together and save the alternate universe carrying on the Doctor's legacy together but without him. I was hoping against all hope in episode 12 and all through episode 13 there would be a surprise element to the ending for me but it ended exactly as I thought it would so for that reason alone I felt let down. I did also found the whole thing of Jackie being pregnant just too corny for words and them all grouped like that. I thought that lovey dovey end was all to drawn out too. I'm a romantic at heart I really am but I thought it was overplayed. It would of been far better as she fell he mouthed I love you and she did something similar then she got taken into the alternate world as happened but she was left banging on the wall and so was he the other side in the other universe, his tears flowing hers flowing. Then you next saw her 3 months later or wahtever it was supposed to be in Torchwood Towers working and telling you what she was doing now and what had happened to them ery briefly. The Doc would be standing alone in the Tardis when he saw the bride. It would of been just as dramatic, moving and said the same thing without that hologram stuff. They could of used those two minutes to show our Earth picking up the pieces and telling us what happened to Yvonne. |
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 9, 2006 22:40:32 GMT
I still don't like the love stuff. The Doctor is an alien and, apart from accidentally getting engaged once by pure accident in The Aztecs, doesn't have those feelings for his companions. This is something they tried to do in the TV Movie when he said he was half-human and snogged Grace. Purlease. If he was going to get all emotional over anyone's departure it would have been Susan because she was his granddaughter (and still on Earth). But he didn't. He made the decision for her, hard as it was, because he knew it was for the best. He had many companions he was fond of, including male ones. Is he meant to have loved them all too? It's stupid, soap opera mush that doesn't have a place in DW. I'm glad rose has gone and hope 'The Companion Show' is a thing of the past and it can get back to proper storytelling on other planets as well as the past and future on Earth (proper past and future, not a few years) and they drop the soap aspect.
Patsy
|
|
|
|
Post by eithne on Jul 10, 2006 18:43:14 GMT
That's the line. You've got a better memory that me. I am surprised though the Daleks failed to recognise the Cybermen immediately. After all, to those who don't know their history, they'll be wondering how they could at all seeing as RTD is having people believe they were actually created in the parallel universe. I haven't got a better memory - just a little thing called a video! When you watch for the second time it is amazing the little things you pick up on, isn't it? The Daleks never actually met the Cybermen before though - did they? So no wonder they wouldn't know one another. I do feel though this story should have been left for the last ever episode mind you - or certainly somewhere in the last series. The Daleks and Cybermen are the Doctor's ultimate foes and now we have seen them fight each other so what can they do to match that? True they could all escape the void but well I think you probably know what I mean even if you disagree with me. The fact is this is global and the damage worldwide must of been devastating. Yet the next episode will continue as if nothing had happened and there will be no seeing the earthlings pick up from such a catastrophe. Totally agree with everything that you have said here. This was a huge, huge battle and so should have been left for the final episode ever. There are plenty of other ways they could have crafted an exit for Rose, Jackie, Pete and Mickey - which saw them all together, and relatively happy. But I suppose RTD had to be the one to write the episode - so it had to be Rose's finale. I hope when Torchwood airs they are going to explain why it is set in Cardiff and not Canary Wolf? I'm not holding my breath though. I think that that already has been explained somewhere. The reason is that the headquarters (the Millenium Buildings in Cardiff) are located on the rift mentioned in BoomTown (Series One, Ep 11) The overnight ratings for Doomsday were 7.7 million average, representing a very impressive 43% or the audience. Not too bad I suppose. But I hope that the BBC will consider moving the third series premiere forward from April to January/February to improve ratings next year. Having the series drag into the summer, and suffer from falling ratings isn't a wise move IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 11, 2006 17:10:01 GMT
Ah but when the Cybermen unwittingly said who they were the Daleks immediately recognised them. So even if they'd never met, they have at least heard of them.
It used to be January in the old days and ran about 24 weeks. It was only later it was moved to Autumn but by then each series had be reduced to 14 weeks. But winter would be better that's for sure. It's still not bad for summer but last year's May/June and this years's are very different.
Patsy
|
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Jul 11, 2006 17:36:18 GMT
Summer used to be the time all the rubbish and repeats were put on because of people going out or on holiday...now it seems to be all year round !!
|
|
|
|
Post by RitaLittlewood on Jul 12, 2006 16:17:41 GMT
That's very true. And they all wonder why audiences are falling while blaming satellite. Put decent programmes on!
Patsy
|
|
